Jupiter Rowland

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Duothematic channel. Primary topic is virtual worlds/OpenSim, secondary topic is the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. Follow me from Mastodon or anywhere else in the Fediverse.

Ort:: The Hypergrid

Geschlecht:: Männlich

Homepage:: https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/profile/jupiter_rowland

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:06:19 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Fediblock for caring too much for accessibility and trying too hard? CW: long post (over 7,300 characters), multiple quote-posts, Fediverse meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta, ableism accusation, Fediblock meta

Artikel ansehen

Fediverse

show all 14 comments

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:12:09 +0100

Darrell Hilliker 👨‍🦯♾️📡

darrell73@mastodon.online

@jupiter_rowland I think #accessibility is just a little different for each person and each situation. I think you're fine if you're truly doing the work with the right intention and an attitude of inclusion. If that's what you're doing then keep up the great work.

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:13:21 +0100

Darrell Hilliker 👨‍🦯♾️📡

darrell73@mastodon.online

@jupiter_rowland Please also just keep in mind that #disabled people like me just need and want to be included. #accessibility allows that and inaccessibility excludes us. It's just that straightforward. Start with WCAG conformance, and then, if you can add some additional usability, by all means go for it.

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:25:28 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:29:42 +0100

Morgan ⚧️

raphaelmorgan@disabled.social

Fediblock meta

Artikel ansehen

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:28:02 +0100

Morgan ⚧️

raphaelmorgan@disabled.social

Fediblock meta

Artikel ansehen

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:36:24 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Darrell Hilliker 👨‍🦯♾️📡 I think that's part of the issue, even if it's unavoidable: There's no one way to please everyone. And the more niche and special your content is, the harder it becomes to please as many disabled people as possible.

There's a saying: "Nothing about us without us." Don't assume what disabled people may need. Ask them. Talk to them. Listen to them.

But I guess the attitude in the Fediverse is that everything is said, everything is defined, everything is set in stone, and it'll work in 100% of all cases. No need to talk about it. You're expected to know it. Just do it.

I mean, I could just carry on assuming, based on what I've read here and there, even if that's technically the wrong thing. I know that there are at least some people who enjoy what I do, for whom it may be helpful.

I could just go on doing that and improving that, for any definition of improving. I could go on until enough people complain to me that I'm doing it completely wrong, and that staggering level of detail is bad for magnitudes more people than it helps. But this is unlikely to happen, seeing as how little feedback I receive.

I mean, at the end of the day, I can't really know whom I describe my images for. Do blind or visually impaired users even come across my image posts, seeing as they come from two different channels than this one now? Do those come across my image posts who demand sanctions for everyone who doesn't describe their images sufficiently? Are my extensive image descriptions and explanations useful for anyone?

Still, I go on putting huge efforts into describing them for the random stranger who stumbles upon one of them on some federated timeline, regardless of whether they're visually-impaired, blessed with a terribly slow Internet connection or a fully sighted alt-text enforcer.

And I will most likely go on increasing my efforts where I can. I'm currently polishing my way of describing persons or rather avatars. After all, I can see the alt-text quality requirements in the Fediverse be constantly raised, too. I need to stay ahead of them.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:37:03 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Fri, 06 Dec 2024 22:40:56 +0100

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Jupiter Rowland I've interacted with you a variety of times, and I have also watched other people interact with you. I do think your intentions are pure, but I think you are looking for the perfect answer. There is no perfect answer.

This means that you keep searching, and keep asking, and are never satisfied. No one can give you a satisfactory answer. And you will never be satisfied if you are expecting to find a perfect answer... because that does not exist.

In the end, you just do the best you can, and you listen to people's feedback, and if it is useful, learn from it and use it.

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 23:01:03 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Morgan ⚧️ I've spent two full days describing one image.

I feel bad when I can't describe something in an image the way I'd like to see myself describe it.

I keep coming across scenes that I think might make for nice pictures. But then I start trying to describe them in my head. And when I discover something that I can't properly describe, I don't even take the picture. I couldn't post it anyway without a description that's up to my standards.

I refuse to post images with realistic-looking buildings in them due to how complex they are to describe. After all, I'd have to first research architectural terminology and then explain it to my readers in the long image description.

A bit over a year ago, while working on an image description which, the next day (!), would end at over 38,000 characters, I realised that I had to describe three pictures of stellar nebulae. I didn't even really know how. I was about to abandon the whole image-posting project due to this. What I've eventually written still feels like a sub-par kludge, not to mention outdated a few times over.

I've read about people going back and alt-texting their entire backlog of image posts. I've wondered a few times if it is or should be recommended to go back and edit and improve your old image descriptions after you've learned something new in terms of describing images.

What do you think, is this genuine or not?

And seriously, I don't even know whom exactly I'm doing all this for because I almost never get any feedback in any form. I do it for whoever comes across one of my image posts. Since my new channel for original images (which I do these monstrous descriptions for) has only got nine followers, and my channel for Fediverse memes (which at least tend to come with extensive explanations) has only seven, it has to be a very rare occurrence that someone who really needs an image description finds one of my image posts.

But I guess the ultimate solution is to forget about "Nothing About Us Without Us" and do what I think is right until too many people come complaining. Which will probably amount to indefinitely.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 23:33:30 +0100

Darrell Hilliker 👨‍🦯♾️📡

darrell73@mastodon.online

@jupiter_rowland I think there must be some sort of misunderstanding as I and others here have provided lots of information, examples and encouragement with respect to describing images and other #accessibility techniques, but then we're getting back various versions of the same complaints about how hard it is to be accessible. Yes. It takes commitment and there work, but it doesn't have to get complicated.

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 23:34:36 +0100

Morgan ⚧️

raphaelmorgan@disabled.social

@jupiter_rowland you do seem genuine right now, and if that's the case I'd say you're overthinking this a lot. If no one gives you feedback on your alt text, it's probably because your alt text is fine. And unless the specific focus of your post is architecture, I don't think anyone really expects you to give a detailed description of all the buildings. "A city skyline" or "a few small houses" are probably enough unless you're trying to say something specific about them, and then you'll know.

Fri, 06 Dec 2024 23:36:18 +0100

Darrell Hilliker 👨‍🦯♾️📡

darrell73@mastodon.online

@jupiter_rowland There are many great websites like https://webaim.org where you can find just about everything you need to get started and then build your experience and knowledge as you go. This is lifelong learning just like about everything else is done especially in tech.

Sat, 07 Dec 2024 00:33:52 +0100

Vincarsi

Vincarsi@mastodon.social

@jupiter_rowland analogy: My husband does most of the cooking. But he has this annoying habit of clearing every detail of a meal to make sure it's to my preference. I understand where it's coming from, both our child and I have autism with food sensitivities and can't eat just anything. But sometimes, the process of having to make the decisions for him is exhausting and I'd much rather just have him do his best and tolerate an occasional mistake. It doesn't have to be perfect to be helpful

Sat, 07 Dec 2024 00:44:04 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Morgan ⚧️ It's probably for the best to do what I do anyway unless enough people come straight to me and complain about what I've done.

It may not be the best in terms of living accessibility, but it's the best for everyone's peace of mind, seeing as hardly anyone will see my image posts anyway.

Sat, 07 Dec 2024 02:26:31 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 07 Dec 2024 02:27:59 +0100

Morgan ⚧️

raphaelmorgan@disabled.social

Tweet by @sahouraxo: "Joe Biden's own staff protesting outside the White House, demanding an end to Israel's genocide in Gaza." Attached is an image of said protest, with a group in front of the White House holding a banner that says <br />"President Biden: your staff demands a ceasefire!"

@jupiter_rowland yes, exactly. I think there's a common standard of "what's all the text in the image and a basic description of the picture(s)". And personally I consider a basic description of the pictures to be the things I would hope someone to know.
Usually, I don't describe the colors of shoes on a stranger in a crowd. But I would mention the colors of a closeup of pride shoes.
(First image CW for USpol and genocide. Wish I could only mark that one 😅)

But past that, you can relax.