Is there a setting in Hubzilla to always pull into my stream posts containing a particular term?

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 05:29:02 +0100

adminsforum@hubzilla.org

Feral Ferment schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Tue, 10 Dec 2024 05:29:14 +0100

Is there a setting in Hubzilla to always pull into my stream posts containing a particular term?

Let us say, as an example, I want posts from across the #Fediverse that contain the word "Godfather" and/or "#Godfather" to always be searched for, and pulled into my stream. Can I automate this by enabling some setting? How?

Also, I do NOT want to block posts that do not contain the search terms. I simply want the posts with the search terms added to my stream.

In the channel settings, there is an option "Only import posts with this text". Will this do what I want? The "Only" is making me suspect if it will block all other posts.

#Hubzilla

show all 42 comments

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 06:48:42 +0100

Markus

markus@hubzilla.markusgarlichs.de

@Feral Ferment I assume that you mean following hashtags. Unfortunately, this is not yet possible. Perhaps this option will be implemented in one of the next versions of Hubzilla. I personally miss this function too. An alternative would be to follow a keyword as an RSS feed. Unfortunately, an RSS feed is bound to an instance.

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 07:28:17 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

Yes, I was asking about the equivalent of Mastodon's "subscribe to a hashtag" feature, in combination with a "saved search for keyword" feature that will run the search automatically run every time I log in (and maybe keep running periodically if I remain logged in), and embed both sets of results in my stream.

I wonder what the "Only import posts with this text" option in the channel settings does.

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 07:35:26 +0100

Markus

markus@hubzilla.markusgarlichs.de

@Feral Ferment Only the messages with the corresponding keyword will be imported in your Stream.

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 07:39:45 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

Which means messages not containing the keyword will be blocked from entering the stream---is that correct? Otherwise, I could use this setting to get posts containing particular keywords into my stream.

There's no way to override the "Only" part, I assume?

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 07:50:54 +0100

Markus

markus@hubzilla.markusgarlichs.de

@Feral Ferment There are two fields for keywords. One does NOT IMPORT, the other field ONLY IMPORTS messages containing the keyword. As far as I know, you can also work with regex here and possibly create complex patterns.

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 08:56:32 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

@Markus

I assume that you mean following hashtags. Unfortunately, this is not yet possible. Perhaps this option will be implemented in one of the next versions of Hubzilla.

NO - this will likely not happen since it is a very clear decision made that hashtags in HZ just work local. that is because the Project wants to follow also in this aspect the decentralize approach

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:04:00 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

@Feral Ferment you can search local by Hashtags and you could also sett up an extra channel which just filters posts on scientific words and than follow this channel by the channel source app ... so set up a channel as filter :-)

BUT here is an other way to get what you want:

On Masto you can also follow Hashtags by RSS ans such a RSS feed can be imported into your HZ Channel.

so try to add this RSS feed to your HZ Connections

https://mastodon.social/tags/Godfather.rss

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 09:32:55 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

in HZ you can also use the "save Search" widget .

got to
/settings/network/
activate
"Saved Searches Save search terms for re-use"

under
/network

make a search in the Widget for

/network?f&search=Godfather&submit=Search
and
/network?f&search=%23Godfather&submit=Search

and save this Searches and you will find a link in the widget for this searches under

"Saved Searches"

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:39:11 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Markus He doesn't mean filters, as in "take these keywords and weed everything out of my stream that doesn't have them".

He means Mastodon's hashtag-following feature. It would import all content with a certain hashtag (or keyword) in it into you stream, even from actors whom you aren't connected with. It's like having a hashtag or a keyword or a list of such as a connection.

A feature that Hubzilla doesn't have. (streams) does, but Hubzilla doesn't.

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:55:47 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

@Jupiter Rowland

A feature that Hubzilla doesn't have. (streams) does, but Hubzilla doesn't.

How does streams do it?

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 10:59:19 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 Settings > Channel Settings > Security and privacy.

There's a field labelled, "Accept messages from strangers which include any of the following hashtags".

Of course, (streams) can only import content that's known to the instance and not from all the most remote nooks of the Fediverse.

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 11:04:24 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

@Jupiter Rowland

can only import content that's known to the instance

so it still does not work link in Masto - this is impotent to know

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 11:10:13 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 No, it does work like on Mastodon.

Following hashtags on Mastodon only gives you the stuff with these hashtags known to your Mastodon instances. And not from the entire Fediverse.

If you want to follow a hashtag on Hubzilla and receive (nearly) all content with that hashtag in the Fediverse, you have to subscribe to https⁠://mastodon.social/tags/.rss. This, in turn, is something that you can't do on Mastodon.

But if you want to interact with content that comes in via RSS feed, you have to copy the URL of a post and paste it into the search field.

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 11:19:26 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 02:33:52 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

so it is like following a search for hashtag in the /pubstream

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 11:32:39 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 It's kind of like a search, but it's like a search that's also a connection. A search that constantly automatically imports stuff from non-connections into your stream, based on hashtags.

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 11:56:39 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

one difference: hz and stream hashtags links do like to the server of the author ... Masto hashtags links will link you to the server of the recipient

Tue, 10 Dec 2024 22:37:09 +0100

Bill Statler

billstatler@forum.statler.ws

Here is some streams documentation for content filters. Mike has made a few changes since Hubzilla, but I think many of the features are similar. Maybe someone could rewrite this as a Hubzilla help file.

https://forum.statler.ws/help/guide/en/Content_Filters

Source: https://codeberg.org/streams/streams/src/branch/dev/doc/guide/en/Content_Filters.mc

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 00:08:20 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Bill Statler Looks like not even @Der Pepe (Hubzilla) ⁂ ⚝ has covered filters in his help rewrite yet.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 02:25:36 +0100

Markus

markus@hubzilla.markusgarlichs.de

Regardless of the feasibility, I personally still see strong arguments in favor of the function for following hashtags. For example, I could imagine this in the form of an add-on so as not to undermine the core philosophy of Hubzilla.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 03:04:33 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Wed, 11 Dec 2024 09:35:33 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

Actually it is all not about following but about finding hashtags in the first place. For finding you need kind of big servers which index all posts. This will force kind of central services we do not really want to exist.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 04:13:48 +0100

Markus

markus@hubzilla.markusgarlichs.de

Am I right in assuming that Streams does not use relay servers?

Of course, (streams) can only import content that's known to the instance and not from all the most remote nooks of the Fediverse.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 05:04:13 +0100

Bill Statler

billstatler@forum.statler.ws

I've never heard of anyone using a relay server with streams. I won't say it's impossible, though.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 05:23:39 +0100

Bill Statler

billstatler@forum.statler.ws

...although, come to think of it, streams does have something similar to a relay. You can make a connection with an entire streams instance, which means you'll receive the "site stream" of public posts from that instance. Mike wrote about this in July 2023: "The original intent was for sites to connect with each other into federated community groups and make content discovery easier for smaller sites by following larger (trusted) ones without needing to enable the horrid 'public stream'. It wasn't until later I thought about letting normal channels follow instances, and sure, why not."

I don't know anybody who has tried using this feature!

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 09:13:08 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

@Bill Statler

You can make a connection with an entire streams instance,

this is one of the great features of streams - and i think it is not limited to streams instances

but i would not call this jut a relay

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 09:29:58 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 And it isn't of much usefulness right now, seeing as not even Rumbly is that big an instance.

We could come back to it if (streams) really took off one day.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 14:14:35 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

Excellent suggestions both. I will try the RSS feed first.

Thank you.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 14:19:35 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

In case of "saved search", will I have to re-activate the search each time? Or is it that any time I click on the "saved search" widget, the stream of posts containing that search term gets refreshed?

In any case, I feel enabling the RSS feed is perhaps the most elegant solution, will try that, as I said earlier.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:01:34 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

@𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

Does the "local" in your statement "hashtags in HZ just work local" stand for the particular hub, or does it mean the entire hubzilla network (but excluding the rest of the Fediverse)? (I am assuming it is the former, to avoid burdening the local hub with a network search; but would like to know for sure.)

So... of your three suggestions (connect to mastodon RSS feed, make a separate channel that filters posts with particular keywords and connect to it, save search), only the RSS feed will come from across the Fediverse (to the extent that the mastodon.social instance is aware of)? Will the other two methods only pull posts from the local hub that match the criteria?

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:28:15 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Feral Ferment

In case of "saved search", will I have to re-activate the search each time? Or is it that any time I click on the "saved search" widget, the stream of posts containing that search term gets refreshed?

It's still a search. There's no automation. You have to trigger it manually.

Its only perk is that you don't have to type it in again and again whenever you want to search for something specific. You save the search, and when you want to search for the same stuff again, you just click on the saved search.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:35:34 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

Yes, I tested it a few minutes ago. Also, the search results seem to be local, not from across the Fediverse, as far as I can tell.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 15:36:50 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Feral Ferment

Does the "local" in your statement "hashtags in HZ just work local" stand for the particular hub, or does it mean the entire hubzilla network (but excluding the rest of the Fediverse)? (I am assuming it is the former, to avoid burdening the local hub with a network search; but would like to know for sure.)

What Chris was referring to is where a hashtag link leads.

On Mastodon, a hashtag link always takes you to the hashtag search on your instance.

On Hubzilla, a hashtag link always takes to you the hashtag search on whichever instance the post or comment with hashtag originally came from.

For example, let's assume @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 posts something with #Hashtag in it.

For him, the link would be https://im.allmendenetz.de/search?tag=Hashtag.

For someone on mastodon.social, the link would be rewritten to https://mastodon.social/tags/Hashtag.

If Hubzilla was like Mastodon, the link would be https://klacker.org/search?tag=Hashtag for you and https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtag for me.

But since Hubzilla is Hubzilla, and Hubzilla always links to where a hashtag is from, we both get https://im.allmendenetz.de/search?tag=Hashtag. We're both taken to Chris' home hub.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:33:25 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

That's very interesting, good to know, thanks.

Though I do suspect that @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 was talking about a hashtag search being limited to the local instance/network.

To test this out, I continued with our test example and searched for #Godfather on klacker.org (logged in as this account), and got no results. I opened mastodon.social and simply tried the same search (without any login), and received multiple results. The following two links were the first and the second result respectively.

https://mastodon.online/@Susan_Larson_TN/113629464648588527

https://mastodon.online/@jonas_trostle/113597968654665969

Just sharing them as illustration, I am not interested in these two posts in any way.

So it does look like the Hubzilla search gave no results because it was limited to the local instance? (and I guess that's what @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼 was saying?)

Essentially, in case of search, it seems to me that a Hubzilla hub does not query other servers on the Fediverse for posts with a hashtag or a keyword, even those servers it is aware of/federates with. Have I understood correctly?

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 16:36:12 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Feral Ferment Well, it's limited to the local hub insofar as it can only find what has ended up on your hub.

If nobody has used a certain hashtag on your hub, and if no content with that hashtag in it has ever arrived on your hub from outside, your hub doesn't have any content with that hashtag.

There's no way for any decentralised Fediverse instance to be able to search the whole Fediverse. Or even know it.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:03:21 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

Umm, I don't understand.

Let's consider the two links I cited in my previous post. Neither of them are posts on mastodon.social. None of the replies to either post comes from mastodon.social. (There is only one reply to one of the posts, and no reply to the other post.) These are not highly boosted or liked posts, so they wouldn't have been in the "explore" section on mastodon.social. So I assume mastodon.social did not have the posts "locally". Only when I searched for #Godfather, it queried the servers it federates with (or maybe queried some relay which aggregates posts from all servers?) and received those results. Isn't that correct?

Of course, I understand that mastodon.social will not pull posts from servers it does not federate with. That part of the Fediverse will be invisible to it.

Now klacker.org gave no results for the same query, so I assume it did not go about querying other servers, it simply searched locally and found nothing. Isn't that correct?

postscript: As additional tests, I tried searching for some very uncommon hashtags on mastodon.social, and it showed results from not only mastodon instances, but also friendica, diaspora, etc. servers. Many of these posts had zero replies, zero boosts, and zero likes. So it does seem to me that the mastodon.social server queries other servers and pulls those results in response to the search.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 17:26:47 +0100

Bill Statler

billstatler@forum.statler.ws

These are not highly boosted or liked posts, so they wouldn't have been in the "explore" section on mastodon.social. So I assume mastodon.social did not have the posts "locally". Only when I searched for #Godfather, it queried the servers it federates with (or maybe queried some relay which aggregates posts from all servers?) and received those results. Isn't that correct?

I believe that is not correct. The thing is, mastodon.social has a LOT of users. All it takes is for one user to be receiving a post, and that post arrives on mastodon.social, where it can be included in a search. It doesn't matter whether it received any replies/boosts/likes.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:01:30 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

Good catch @Bill Statler, I forgot about the user connection part.

Let me try to understand this. Say there is user X on random server Y. Assume that no user on mastodon.social follows user X. But users on mastodon.social follow other users on server Y. Neither server has blocked the other.

User X writes a post containing the term #Godfather. The post receives no reply, no boost, no like. Later, someone searches for #Godfather on mastodon.social. Will mastodon.social list user X's post in the search results?

Replace mastodon.social with klacker.org, replace "follow" with "two-way connections", and repeat the thought experiment. Will the search results be different in this case?

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:49:23 +0100

Bill Statler

billstatler@forum.statler.ws

Will mastodon.social list user X's post in the search results?

No. (Okay, I'm afraid to say "absolutely no" because there is a lot going on in the Fediverse that I don't know about. But unless mastodon.social has acquired user X's post via some other route, it should be invisible in a search.)

Replace mastodon.social with klacker.org

Still no. (With the same caveat!)

This feature of the Fediverse is either a huge annoyance or a privacy protection, depending on who you talk to.

Wed, 11 Dec 2024 18:49:24 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

@Feral Ferment

Will mastodon.social list user X's post in the search results?

if the post is relayed by a masto relay server than maybe YES

in HZ this post will likely not show up, i would say

Fri, 13 Dec 2024 09:50:04 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

@Bill Statler, @𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼,

Thank you for the lessons.

I suppose Bluesky's all-in-one relay makes more sense in this context, at least from the point of view of users who want to search for content from all the PDS (though the relay is an obvious point of centralization).

As to my question in the OP, the suggestion to pull the RSS feed from the largest instance in the Fediverse (mastodon.social) indeed seems to be the best solution, if one wants to cast their net as wide as possible.

(I can now also see why it makes sense for new users who want access to as much of the Fediverse as possible to flock to the largest instance, which again is a centralizing feedback loop.)

I can live with Hubzilla's RSS feed connection, though interacting with the content received in the feed is a pain---one has to separately copy the url of each post one wants to interact with, paste it into the search field, and then like/repeat/comment (as @Jupiter Rowland pointed out in an earlier comment). Is there a app/plugin/whatever-it-is-called that automatically picks each url from a mastodon RSS feed connection, searches for it, and embeds the resultant post in the stream?

I guess not. Would be great to have.

Fri, 13 Dec 2024 09:57:21 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Feral Ferment

Is there a app/plugin/whatever-it-is-called that automatically picks each url from a mastodon RSS feed connection, searches for it, and embeds the resultant post in the stream?

Nope, because I think I've invented this technique just recently.

Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:04:57 +0100

𝓒𝓱𝓻𝓲𝓼

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

@Feral Ferment

Is there a app/plugin/whatever-it-is-called that automatically picks each url from a mastodon RSS feed connection, searches for it, and embeds the resultant post in the stream?

YES

just use a FF Addon like "Redirect Link"

https://addons.mozilla.org/de/firefox/addon/redirect-link

if you configure it right it will do the job with a click.

Fri, 13 Dec 2024 10:13:33 +0100

Feral Ferment

feralferment@klacker.org

Ohhh, great! I will check it out.