-

Fri, 03 Apr 2020 17:41:28 +0200

jabgoe2089@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

might have been asked already but i couldn't find anything about my question, so please bear with me:

is there a way to follow hashtags or similar here in hubzlilla?

the reason for that is the possibility in diaspora to follow hashtags like #newhere and so find new members that want to be found, so that they are not alone for too long. i don't know how to do this with hubzilla or if this is even possible here.

hashtag

show all 23 comments

Fri, 03 Apr 2020 19:48:14 +0200

simple answer (not very technical and direct)

there is no connection between the hashtags of your site with the hashtags of other sites, unless you are in contact with a person from another site and receive their posts.
We use groups / forums to get to know us and contact us.

Fri, 03 Apr 2020 23:25:02 +0200

El Dorado

mike@z.macgirvin.com

Open your Diaspora Protocol app and add some hashtags to follow.

If you want Hubzilla itself to follow hashtags, somebody will need to make it happen. Since this feature is generally spam friendly and tends to promote centralisation and aggregation of large servers, it would probably need to be a plugin. I would highly encourage people contemplating such a mechanism to use forums/groups instead. Ultimately they work pretty much the same except that you use a different tag character (!newhere instead of #newhere) and they can be moderated and toxic content/people can be mediated or dropped by the group owner.

Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:42:28 +0200

emaxmax

emaxmax@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Look like forums/groups are much more centralised than hastags...

Mon, 06 Apr 2020 19:50:31 +0200

join the discussion! =)

topics subscription

Hello! Is it possible somehow to subscribe to a hashtag, so it would appear in my *network stream* regardless of its source? Only option I found is saved search. But it's manual, and can't be included to a stream. #hashtag #stream #network

Mon, 06 Apr 2020 23:44:17 +0200

El Dorado

mike@z.macgirvin.com

Let's simplify so we don't go through this argument every few weeks for *another* decade.

If you want it, make it happen. If you don't want it, do nothing.

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 13:13:32 +0200

@emaxmax Forums are just a channel and as nomadic as any other channel if the owner wants them to.

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 13:59:57 +0200

emaxmax

emaxmax@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Owner ⇒ centralized

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 14:25:34 +0200

By that definition any channel is centralized.
But I think this is truly nitpicking, so I won't continue here.

As you are usually communicating with people / channels you connected to or messages within your stream hashtags play a different role here, they filter messages on your hub. Creating a hashtag filter for permanent display should be doable and easy (says a non-dev). Call it subscription, done.
You could possibly create something to filter the public stream, but as opening the public stream is just another can of worms ... the admin has only limited ability to control that stream. They can either just enable a local public stream, with posts just originating on that hub, or open the global public stream and possibly through in some filter words. If that makes sense is another question. Last but not least an admin is legally responsible for illegal content within their hubs, and have to act accordingly. As the global stream is ... global anything can happen. But I cannot imagine implementing something would be too difficult. If you as an admin want to enable that remains up to you ...

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 15:28:07 +0200

emaxmax

emaxmax@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

By that definition any channel is centralized.

Indeed. Whereas #hashtags are not. Any one can use one, any one can follow one, no need to a single authority to validate.
Different usage, so please stop repeating that the feature is already covered with forums. It isn't.

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 15:51:09 +0200

Einer von Vielen

einer@digitalesparadies.de

@emaxmax I would not say a channel is "centralized". My channel has a clone for example. Both servers are my own hardware and both are placed in the flats of family members. So, "Centralized" could a little bit misleading for a user that is used to Facebook, Twitter,..

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 16:17:13 +0200

absolutely, hashtags and forums/groups are 2 different things...
Some tags utilities can be covered by forums, and vice versa, only a few.
Hubzilla is not the place for hashtags ala twitter, absolutely not,
(IMHO -> thanks to God!)

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:26:38 +0200 zuletzt bearbeitet: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:34:53 +0200

@Giacomino

Hubzilla is not the place for hashtags ala twitter, absolutely not,

While Twitter is a very centralized service, I second this. But I want to through in a few more thoughts which are my own and as far as I understand this discussion.
I hope this may clarify some misunderstandings and
significantly different philosophies.
The different approaches to hashtags is what I was hoping to get across above. Hashtags a la Zot are local to all messages on that hub. Stop. By definition they do no reach across the borders, which is why we experience so much misunderstandings.
But as it has been said, a hashtag filter aka subscribtion should not be hard, given this local approach. If it makes sense as compared to other systems remains to be seen. I don't miss it, maybe I'd be thankful once it's there even though I don't see the use. I am open, do it.
And I guess this is discussing apples and oranges regarding decentralisation, two very different views on decebtralization.

my data and activities, connections are decentralized as I can switch to kind of any hub I trust, create alive and living clones etc. My identity is decentralized, I can even close down my online ID for some time, then upload my ID to a hub and continue.
The other form of decentralization is pure distribution of every content, once I pump a post out, it's out there. No service at all is master, all data is shared in redundancy

Both do have their values. Zot and as such Zotlabs|Hubzilla and Zotlabs|Zap as it's software products center around a person and to give that person back the control of their data. If you want total accessibility, yes, then that's centralization. To me it's empowerment and self determination, which does get lost in today's web all too often.It also allows me to delete all my data as much as technically possible and it also allows me to control who is able to access that I pump out. Somewhere between everyone to just myself.
I am very thankful for that. This is why I like Zot.

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:45:55 +0200

in truth the fact that there are just tags created in my hub, and that arrive through my contacts from other hubs, is what I like, because, although it is true that I can lose some interesting people, filter the ocean of imbeciles, and sincerely speaking this planet is full, it is very important, in other words: avoid the spam that is created with the hashtags ala twitter / diaspora / mastodon ...

the #zot universe is certainly different.

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 17:49:31 +0200

emaxmax

emaxmax@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Einer von Vielen, as long as you're the only admin of your channel, it's centralized on you.
I'm not talking about technical implementation (because that was not the context of the one who bring that concept in the discussion).

@h.ear.t : pseudo-hashtags limited to local are useless and nobody are asking for that.

Tue, 07 Apr 2020 18:20:30 +0200

@emaxmax

pseudo-hashtags limited to local are useless and nobody are asking for that.

Yes, even hashtags can have different design philosphies.
But why are some better than others, that's something I don't understand. I guess we are talking of completely different things. I must admit, then I don't understand what you want, what you are missing. But I do hope that I may have gotten the point across that even very different message flow design approaches do have their values. I have just chosen what approach fits me.
If you want to click on a hashtag and collect all messages from all hubs with that hashtag ... nearest thing you get to that is the global stream, wich as I said, does have it's very own issues and is to each and every admin to decide whether they want to live with possibly criminal content on their hub, or not.
Zot does put the person and their "publishing needs" centerstage and the tools are built around that.

Please elaborate if there is something I don't get. But beware, I'm no dev, I don't decide features, I just like using Zot.

Wed, 08 Apr 2020 07:34:20 +0200

Mike Macgirvin schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Wed, 08 Apr 2020 05:34:44 +0200

Wed, 08 Apr 2020 21:05:50 +0200

emaxmax

emaxmax@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@h.ear.t, hashtags are supposed to be usable by anybody, more like a broadcast. And anyone interested can catch them. Of course, this is compatible with more filtering and restrictions.
On the legal issue: if I follow you from my hub, I can see your posts. Are they stored on my hub? If that is true, then the issue is already there. If not, then it should not be different.

Wed, 08 Apr 2020 21:36:17 +0200

@emaxmax
Yes, for Zot my posts are distributed and stored on your hub (if you are allowed to read them), and so are yours if you allow me to see them. Public posts are distributed intonthe public stream and can be seem by any hub that enables the public stream. They show up in your network stream if we are connected.
If I restrict a post to Erna, Helga and Ernie, their channels are specifically targeted.
This is very different to enabling the public stream. Then the admin allows their hub to actively fetch all public posts that they can get hold of and to display them. This includes literally all, i.e. not just posts from connections.
This is why we actively discourage opening that can of worms so that each admin knows where they mey be getting into.

Thu, 09 Apr 2020 08:16:25 +0200

Mike Macgirvin schrieb den folgenden Beitrag Wed, 08 Apr 2020 23:10:49 +0200

The secret of getting ahead is getting started.
-- Mark Twain

Fri, 10 Apr 2020 10:52:10 +0200

@h.ear.t

As you are usually communicating with people / channels you connected to or messages within your stream hashtags play a different role here, they filter messages on your hub. Creating a hashtag filter for permanent display should be doable and easy (says a non-dev). Call it subscription, done.

I really like what you said here. For me the best implementation for hashtags is an opportunity to include to my stream things that are already in my hub, but I'm not aware of it! And it is left to hub owner if he wants to pass through everything or hold only connection-based content.

On the other hand it would be great to exclude something from (public) stream. But there are already keyword filters that should be even more powerful.

Btw, can't find info how to filter out precise phrases from my connection; I don't want posts with specific subsrings. Should I just put it on a separate line, quote it, parenthesis, or something?

Fri, 10 Apr 2020 14:28:33 +0200

I don't know how to specify phrases as opposed to words, but I wanted to point out that I'm pretty sure that changing the filter won't change what had already been delivered. That is, you can't change the filter and look to see if an existing message has disappeared as a means to test the filter change.

Sat, 11 Apr 2020 11:33:10 +0200

@Marshall Sutherland
Thanks, you confirmed my concerns of that method!
That's why I started with search and docs, but found nothing on the topic. =(

Sat, 11 Apr 2020 15:36:40 +0200

I've only ever used the feature to limit posts by language. If you need someone to post things with specific phrases so you can test, let me know. (We can use made-up phrases in case whatever you want to actually block is offensive)