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2023-08-07 15:51:27

stefan@stefanbohacek.online

Question for #blind #VisuallyImpaired folks, what kind of image descriptions do you prefer?

#accessibility #a11y #AltText #ImageDescription

Short, to the point

49 Stimmen | 4%

As detailed as possible

21 Stimmen | 2%

Add a little whimsy!

47 Stimmen | 4%

Show results.

1212 Stimmen | 91%

1329 Stimmen insgesamt
Umfrage ist beendet

show all 35 comments

2023-08-07 16:08:25

Jake in the desert

jake4480@c.im

@stefan cc @Faylen

2023-08-07 16:17:23

Dani :verified:

dMjolnir96@ohai.social

@stefan wow ? 70% la última opción. Me sorprende como va de momento

2023-08-07 16:54:25

⁂67guanacos89llamas181alpacas

337guanacos@xarxa.cloud

@stefan I'm no visually impaired, but sometimes I need a little help to fully understand social nuances in images. I've found ALTs useful once in a while.

2023-08-07 17:30:49

Quinn Comendant 🐧

com@mastodon.social

@stefan How can I view the answers without voting? (I’m not visually impaired.). Perhaps you can post a screenshot of the results?

2023-08-07 17:55:44

Steffen Erzgraber

sbe@muenchen.social

@stefan Funny you posted that. I'm curious not so much about the results, but how many blind people already came around and started to use mastodon. ?
Here are some related links:
https://saltkrokan.test.rrze.uni-erlangen.de/blog/2022/08/16/der-perfekte-alt-text-interview-mit-blinden-und-sehbehinderten-menschen/

https://www.dbsv.org/alternativtext.html

2023-08-07 18:32:43

lifewithryan

lifewithryan@toot.community

@stefan I would love to know this answer. I’m in awe of how well people describe things on here in the alt text. I have much work to do…

2023-08-07 19:10:32

Kenneth

Kencf618033@disabled.social

@stefan Camp Whimsy here.

#accessibility #a11y #alttext #imagedescription #blind #VisuallyImpaired

2023-08-07 19:29:20

MostlyBlindGamer

MostlyBlindGamer@dragonscave.space

@stefan I think the distinction between alt text and descriptions is very useful here: short alt text can get the point across and a detailed description can provide access to further relevant information.

2023-08-07 19:47:52

ahimsa

ahimsa_pdx@disabled.social

@stefan Tagging @oedipusnj - thought you might want to vote and/or add a comment

2023-08-07 19:50:15

AidanB

AidanB@dice.camp

So I'm reading this as "To the point, with added whimsy." Perfect.

2023-08-07 20:08:45

Your favourite booster

mustamakkara@tooting.ch

@stefan
would love to see the results and improve my ALTs, is it possible to add a "just show the results" option?

2023-08-07 20:18:10

Nifflas

Nifflas@mastodon.gamedev.place

@stefan That's definitely more "Add a little whimsy" than I expected! But sure, I can do that. Maybe I can utilize it to convey the "spirit" of the image better?

2023-08-07 20:42:30

@990000@mstdn.social

990000@mstdn.social

@stefan great poll. Is there a way to follow this thread and see the results without clicking?

2023-08-07 21:04:05

Yvonne Frindle

frindley@aus.social

@stefan My challenge is that most of my images are visual art (sketches in different media), and I worry that my descriptions are too long, because I'm trying to convey not just the subject matter/composition but also the medium/artistic technique/treatment.

2023-08-07 21:13:58

Stefan Bohacek

stefan@stefanbohacek.online

@frindley Yes, that's definitely a challenge. But I think people appreciate putting in the effort.

2023-08-07 21:57:05

Chris_Swan

Chris_Swan@mstdn.social

@stefan I will be interested in this poll!

2023-08-07 22:06:21

Ciro Durán ?

chiguire@mastodon.social

Screenshot of the poll that Stefan posted, with a mouse cursor over the link called "See results"

@stefan huh, Mastodon _does_ have a See results link, so you can view the results without skewing votes

2023-08-07 22:17:37

Rivetgeek (He/Him)

rivetgeek@dice.camp

@stefan Not blind, but my mom was all of her life. She preferred that I describe things in words that she could relate to (texture, feel, size, warmth, etc.) with a little whimsy.

2023-08-07 23:48:12

StormyNight

ontheotherside@mastodon.social

@stefan I can only speak for myself as a blind user, but my favorite image descriptions that I’ve seen so far are the ones that manage to explain the content of the image in detail while offering context specific to the poster’s tonal intentions. (humor or whit for a meme for example) regardless, I’m just glad to have the chance to actually interact with content.

2023-08-07 23:52:07

StormyNight

ontheotherside@mastodon.social

@frindley @stefan As a blind user, I appreciate the effort put into descriptions regardless of their length, and I’ll read them in their entirety. :)

2023-08-08 00:38:19

Niknodder

niknodder@mstdn.ca

@stefan good question! I always wonder if I’m providing enough or too much detail.

2023-08-08 02:46:38

? Chelsea ??

greengaybles@wandering.shop

@stefan I was very torn between "as detailed as possible" and "add a little whimsy," but ultimately whimsy won out for me. I've never been a short and to the point person. I want to know what's in the image, and also why you felt it was worth sharing, and also to get a sense of your personality in your descriptions. It's a tall order so I never expect it, but it's nice when I happen upon it.

2023-08-08 04:17:23

SKUNK 🏳️‍⚧️

RATFOOD@mastodon.art

@stefan I've been grappling with this as an artist. How much detail is necessary? My art is supposed to be an experience. Can I do a good job conveying that experience to someone who can't see it? Do they just want to know the literal contents of the image or should I add flair and flavor to the description? I'm not visually impaired so I honestly don't know the answer. I try my best to strike a happy medium, and hope it does the job.

2023-08-08 09:44:40

👩‍🦯The Blind Fraggle

Fragglemuppet@fandom.ink

@stefan A lot of people voted but hardly anyone answered, lol.

I said as much detail as possible mostly because I figure if you can see it, I should be able to see it too! As in, don't leave information out because you think it's unimportant. I should be the judge of that! But of course in practice it's a bit different, lol. Usually just saying everything in the picture should be enough, no need to say where everything is in relation to each other, for example. Whimsy is also good!

2023-08-08 10:27:05

John Blair

jdblair@hachyderm.io

@stefan guttural (harde) g, like gif

#dutch #nederlands

2023-08-08 10:40:48

Ecolhombre ⏚ :verified:

ecolhombre@piaille.fr

@stefan I try to add a little something when I can, but I'm not sure it's a good idea, I'm curious to know!

2023-08-08 14:04:02

Aitch - Þei/Þem

AmaBagins@mastodon.art

@stefan Interested in the results, as I do accessibility (including advising on alt text etc) for a living.

2023-08-08 17:43:49

🌹🔪Big Tuff Al🌹💪

bigtuffal@dice.camp

@stefan this is the least instructive poll result i have ever seen

thank you for accidentally creating this anomaly ? ?‍♂️

2023-08-08 20:11:09

grateful wolf

gratefulwolf@archaeo.social

@stefan alt text exists in the context of the toot… i employ all 3 strategies accordingly (not simultaneously, i would add)

2023-08-09 04:06:51

Gregory J. Rosmaita

oedipusnj@kolektiva.social

@stefan This is a false set of choices/options. Every image is different. Each image demands a different amount of description. Each image dictates the type of description that best provides an equivalent experience of that particular image. As with anything & everything accessibility, there are no cookie-cutter solutions. One size neither fits nor satisfies anybody. ALT is far more art than craft.

What is essential is not only communicating the "what" of the image, but the "why" of the image: the reason that image was chosen above all others to evoke a specific reaction in the viewer, without the need for words. It is those words, obviously, that need to go into the ALT in order to provide an equivalent experience.

If the image is humorous, then humor is appropriate. If the image is solemn, a more serious approach is appropriate. ALT is only truly reflective of an image when the image description matches the tone & intent of the image.

The easiest way to determine the size & tenor of an image description is to write your description as if you are describing the image over a landline phone; you want the person hearing your description to have the same reaction to the image they would have if they could see it.

2023-08-10 00:43:26

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

2023-08-10 00:58:24

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Yvonne Frindle @Stefan Bohacek Yes, some kinds of images actually require enormous #ImageDescriptions if done properly.

My images are from #VirtualWorlds. They show places which practically nobody is familiar with, which therefore have to be described, and they show lots and lots of things in these places which practically nobody is familiar with, which therefore need even more description.

On top of that, I have to explain everything that the average #Fediverse user is unfamiliar with, and that can be a lot again.

In fact, I don't describe my images by what can be seen in the image itself at the resolution at which it's posted. I describe them by what's actually there within the frame of the image, and I look around in-world rather than in the image.

Also, they say that if there's text in the image, it has to be transcribed. I've extended that: If there's text anywhere in the area shown in the image, it has to be transcribed, regardless of whether it's legible in the image or not. So there could also be quite a number of text transcriptions in my image descriptions.

If an image is extremely detailed, I may put more characters into one #ImageDescription than other users put into all image descriptions of two weeks or even a whole month. But nobody has complained about that yet.

2023-08-10 01:01:45

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@StormyNight Challenge accepted: I have a description for an extremely detailed image which has grown into over 13,000 characters of description, explanation and more than 20 transcriptions. It's my longest one by far, but I still find it lacking. Here is the link to an article with only the image and the description.

2023-08-10 01:33:58

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@StormyNight You can't know that as a fully blind person, but: Some of the details I have described are really tiny and bordering on being invisible. When I wrote the image description, I didn't write about the image itself. I went back in-world to the self-same building, and I did my research there.

The strawberry cocktail in front of Bertha Senior is only two by two pixels. Four pixels which would now justify a content warning for alcohol that'd be unnecessary without the description.

The one on the info counter? Without zooming into the picture, I can only guess where it is.

The laptop? It took even me a while to locate it in the picture. It's much easier to find in-world. And I was actually tempted to also research what applications are shown on its screen texture and try to fully transcribe everything written on it.

Three of the signs which I've transcribed, two of which I've even translated, are only five by three pixels in the picture itself. They aren't just illegible in the image. The text on these signs is completely invisible. In-world, they have perfectly legible textures, and they're about as big as lunch trays.

2023-08-10 01:48:43

Stefan Bohacek

stefan@stefanbohacek.online

@jupiter_rowland Interesting point about mainly using the post itself to describe the attached images.

Overall, from the responses I've seen, it's most important to put in the effort, and to understand the purpose of describing an image.

On a related note, I also find the results reported by @AltTextHealthCheck interesting, based on my experience, I would've expected the number to be higher.