I still keep learning about accessibility

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 00:49:58 +0100

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

Dammit.

I've just read that one important thing to mention in an image description is the camera position and orientation. I've never done that, at least not properly. Even when it would have been the most important, I've only managed whether the camera is oriented more to the east or the north and by roughly how many degrees it is oriented away from perpendicular to the scene. But I didn't mention its position, height above the ground or tilt angle.

#AltText #ImageDescription #Accessibility

Fediverse

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Wed, 08 Nov 2023 02:41:23 +0100

Jayme

hippyjo@c.im

@jupiter_rowland

Don't beat yourself up!

I would caution you to not accept every bit of advice you find on the Internet as the final verdict of what to do with alt text.

There are many differing opinions, even amongst those who are blind or visually impaired.

I think the main thing to focus on is to provide the information the image is conveying, relative to the post.

Sometimes a lot of meta information about the image is overkill and creates cognitive overload and can just be boring.

A lot of that information doesn't add any meaning, and it is not going to change the information being communicated by the image. Plus, a lot of those technical details are not always available.

Of course, if the image is for an art appreciation group or a photography class, then those details become more significant and appropriate.

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 03:50:42 +0100

Scott M. Stolz

scott@biztechtonics.net

One way to think about it is "would an audiobook say that when describing a scene?"

I've listened to many audiobooks, and I don't remember any that told me the camera orientation. I can't see what is going on since it is an audiobook, so everything must be conveyed with words. The position of the camera is usually not important enough to mention.

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 08:54:27 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Jayme Well, I always take my pictures myself unless they're memes. So I know where I've placed the camera.

Also, I don't post real-life photographs. I post 3-D renderings from inside virtual worlds. I'm not limited to what's possible with tripods. I can do camera placements that only became possible in real life with the arrival of camera drones, also because I don't have to use an actual camera. So there's a vast difference between the camera being on eye level or high above the ground.

I think I've taken care of everything else otherwise including things that practically nobody else would even take into consideration. Like verbatim transcriptions of text that's so small in the picture that it can't be read. There's no real excuse for not mentioning the camera position.

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 08:54:59 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Scott M. Stolz That's because audiobooks neither have nor need a camera.

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 13:33:15 +0100

Scott M. Stolz

scott@biztechtonics.net

@Jupiter Rowland But audiobooks still often describe a scene in detail. My point is, does your audience really need to know that information? Do they even care? If it is a detail they would care about, you include it. If it is detail they won't care about, then don't include it.

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 15:23:03 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Scott M. Stolz There's always the good advice to consider your audience when describing an image.

I know my audience. My audience is practically the entire Fediverse. My audience includes anyone who might stumble upon one of my posts on the federated timeline on mastodon.social. Or disabled.social or autistics.life or any other instance out there.

That might not be my desired target audience. It's my actual audience. And I have no means of making sure that only my target audience will ever read my posts. Not as long as almost my entire target audience resides on Mastodon and partly on general-purpose instances.

And I can never know for sure who is curious and eager to know about what. I can never be sure that my posts won't come across someone who tries to make everyone in the Fediverse always write fully descriptive image descriptions for every picture they post because that someone has seen too many bad and non-descriptive alt-texts.

Oh, and the camera position is not, technically speaking, part of a scene.

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 16:27:02 +0100

Jayme

hippyjo@c.im

@jupiter_rowland

That is a great example of the context allowing/deserving more details.

I appreciate your effort and compassion, and the example of a context where more in-depth descriptions are necessary - thanks for sharing!

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 17:45:40 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Jayme Just wait until you actually come across one of my image posts.

Wed, 08 Nov 2023 22:12:36 +0100 zuletzt bearbeitet: Wed, 08 Nov 2023 22:15:34 +0100

Scott M. Stolz

scott@biztechtonics.net

@Jupiter Rowland

Oh, and the camera position is not, technically speaking, part of a scene.

That's the point I was trying to make. Unless the camera position adds to the understanding or intent of the scene, I don't see how it's relevant.

But in some cases it is. For example, if the image has the sun in the background and the sun is so bright it is affecting how you view the scene, then saying you are facing the sun and mentioning how the bright sun illuminates the scene might be appropriate because it changes the experience of the scene.

But saying "the camera is 5 feet off the ground facing southeast at latitude x and longitude y" is only useful in a very limited set of circumstances.

Thu, 09 Nov 2023 00:58:34 +0100

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Scott M. Stolz

That's the point I was trying to make. Unless the camera position adds to the understanding or intent of the scene, I don't see how it's relevant.

Well, at the very least, there's a difference between eye level and an aerial view.

Thu, 09 Nov 2023 01:31:51 +0100

Scott M. Stolz

scott@biztechtonics.net

@Jupiter Rowland

Well, at the very least, there's a difference between eye level and an aerial view.

I think that would be an example of where it is relevant. But usually, the camera position is implied in the description of the items because you are describing the side that you can see, not the side that you can't see. This usually reveals the camera's orientation without explicitly mentioning it. For example, if you are describing the top of every item, most people would assume this is an aerial view.

In the end, it depends on the image and whether that information is relevant, or needs to be explicitly mentioned since it is not obvious based on other parts of the description.