-

2025-01-02 15:53:24

scott@codejournal.dev

I just created a table that compares Hubzilla, Mastodon, Bluesky, and Threads. Eventually this list will appear on various websites.

If you could look it over and tell me if I missed something or made a mistake, that would be appreciated. Thank you.

https://codejournal.dev/page/scott/compare

show all 23 comments

2025-01-02 16:12:46

Ema エマ

ema@utasansh.in

Lists / Feeds: For connection lists, we had an addon for Hubzilla. But I cannot find it anymore. Is it gone, @Mario Vavti?

2025-01-03 10:07:44

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

I think the list can be made more useful for showing it to Mastodon users who have never heard of Hubzilla, especially those who are fully convinced that Mastodon is the bee's knees.

I'm not sure if the line "Social Media" is appropriate. "Social media" usually refers to stuff like Twitter, but Hubzilla is nothing like Twitter. Hubzilla is more of a "social network" which is something like Facebook, but Mastodon, Bluesky and Threads aren't that.

One line that I think is really missing is "Character Limit".

Hubzilla: unlimited (or you could ask the devs about the database field length and list that as a character limit)
Mastodon: 500
Threads: 500
Bluesky: 300

Another three lines that could be useful:

Text Formatting (Hubzilla: yes; Mastodon: read-only, limited)
Embedded Images (Hubzilla: yes, Mastodon: no)
Number of Images per Post (Hubzilla: unlimited, Mastodon: 4)

"Polls" could have a number of maximum options which is unlimited on Hubzilla and 4 on Mastodon.

"Multiple Channels per Account" should rather be "Multiple Separate Identities per Account" because people who don't know Hubzilla don't know what "channel" means on Hubzilla. It means something totally different on Friendica, for example.

Likewise, "Block Channels" should be "Block Actors" or something else that everyone understands.

"Applications (Apps)" should be "Add-ons that can be activated by users" or something. When a Mastodon or Bluesky or Threads user reads "apps", they think of something that you can install on your phone.

The X for Hubzilla under Lists/Feeds makes it look like it's impossible to organise connections into groups and send posts only to a certain group on Hubzilla. Also, it looks like Mastodon has invented that feature. But Hubzilla has something like Mastodon's lists: privacy groups. I'd suggest to split this up and also add a line, "Posts Visible Only to Specific Groups of People".

"Prevent Replies to Your Posts" appears to have an explanation somewhere, but it doesn't.

Maybe you could add "WebDAV" under "Files (Cloud Storage)", "CalDAV Server" under "Events / Calendar" and "CardDAV Server", marked optional, under that.

Under "Networks and Protocols", there should be two lines for feeds. One could be "Built-in Feeds" (Hubzilla: yes, Atom; Mastodon: yes, RSS), one could be "Subscribe to Feeds" (Hubzilla: yes, Mastodon: no).

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Mastodon #Threads #Bluesky

2025-01-03 10:14:21

aliceif

aliceif@mkultra.x27.one

@scott@codejournal.dev it would be very interesting to see Misskey on this since it occupies a nice middle ground between Mastodon and Hubzilla in that it has some advanced features like local timelines ("channels") and the cloud storage thing but still comes across as something not really more complicated to get into than Mastodon.
Also the only platform on there with a Reversi game 😄

2025-01-03 10:15:31

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Jupiter Rowland Good ideas.

The list isn't really targeted at people who only know about Mastodon or who have already picked their favorite fediverse app. I doubt this type of comparison will persuade people who already have their favorite.

I think it will be more compelling to people who have heard of the Fediverse and Bluesky and are interested in it but don't know anything about it yet. People who are still shopping around for a fediverse app or a server to join.

2025-01-03 10:20:46

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Scott M. Stolz

The list isn't really targeted at people who only know about Mastodon or who have already picked their favorite fediverse app. I doubt this type of comparison will persuade people who already have their favorite.

But it can come in handy

to show "Mastodon is the best out there and literally the only feature-complete Fediverse server app" fanatics what Hubzilla can do that Mastodon can't
to show those on Mastodon who think everything that isn't Mastodon is just Mastodon under any other name what Hubzilla can and probably will flush into their timelines ("long" posts, text formatting, quote-posts etc.)
to show those on Mastodon who ask for a certain new feature for "the Fediverse" that the Fediverse, read, Hubzilla already has it

Interact more with Mastodon users, and you'll understand.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Mastodon

2025-01-03 10:28:58

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@aliceif Eventually, I would like to create a database that compares all of the fediverse platforms. I am actually very interested in seeing how the different platforms compare. Knowing this information could lead to better interoperability between platforms.

2025-01-03 10:39:15

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Jupiter Rowland

I'm not sure if the line "Social Media" is appropriate. "Social media" usually refers to stuff like Twitter, but Hubzilla is nothing like Twitter. Hubzilla is more of a "social network" which is something like Facebook, but Mastodon, Bluesky and Threads aren't that.

To most people... and the government... Facebook is a "social media" platform. And that is the term most people are familiar with. For the audience expected to consume this list, I think it conveys the intended message. If clarification is needed, it can be done elsewhere outside of the chart. After all, the chart already explains that there is a difference between platforms.

2025-01-03 11:28:54

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Jupiter Rowland

But it can come in handy
to show "Mastodon is the best out there and literally the only feature-complete Fediverse server app" fanatics what Hubzilla can do that Mastodon can't
to show those on Mastodon who think everything that isn't Mastodon is just Mastodon under any other name what Hubzilla can and probably will flush into their timelines ("long" posts, text formatting, quote-posts etc.)
to show those on Mastodon who ask for a certain new feature for "the Fediverse" that the Fediverse, read, Hubzilla already has it

Interact more with Mastodon users, and you'll understand.

Yes, the list can be used for bragging about Hubzilla, but that is not really my intent.

We are not going to become the best platform on the Fediverse by waving a list in front of people's faces and telling them that we are better. Especially if we come from a place of superiority. That just turns people off.

We are going to become the best platform on the Fediverse by becoming a leader in the space and by increasing the number of servers & channels on our platform. We are going to become a leader in the fediverse by having cutting edge features and working with other platforms on interoperability. And we are going to increase our numbers by launching a number of public hubs that new users can sign up for, and by making it easy for people to have their own hub on their own domain.

I am not interested in converting people. People who prefer a Twitter-style interface are not going to be interested in what we have to offer. And that is okay. Different people like different things. That is the beauty of the Fediverse. People have options.

I am more interested in attracting a new audience and making them fans of Hubzilla. I am more interested in showing people what is possible in the fediverse, so that technologies like nomadic identity, federated single sign on, fediverse-powered apps, and more can become standard cross-platform features.

We are going after a different audience that prefers a Facebook-style interface. And Facebook is more popular than Twitter or X, so I think that in the long run, we have the advantage, even if no one from Mastodon, Threads, or Bluesky converts. We don't need converts to be successful.

So, this list is not for bragging or converting people. It is for attracting people who are interested in our unique feature set.

2025-01-03 11:42:52

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Scott M. Stolz

Yes, the list can be used for bragging about Hubzilla, but that is not really my intent.

It isn't all about bragging. It's also about warning.

I want Mastodon users to know that we can send posts with 50,000 characters into their timelines where they don't expect anything with more than 500 characters.

I want Mastodon users to know that, yes, Hubzilla users can quote-toot their every toot. Right now. With no resistance. The reaction I expect is not, "Cool, you've got quote-posts? I'll come over!" but rather, "WTF YOU CAN LIKE QUOTE-TOOT ME?!!???!? NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!1!!!1!!!!"

And I want them to know all this before the fact. I want to warn them about long posts before they receive long posts. I want to warn them about Hubzilla being able to quote-toot Mastodon toots before someone on Hubzilla quote-toots them.

To many Mastodon users, long posts and quote-posts aren't long-desired wishes. Rather, long posts are nuisances, and quote-posts are potential means of harassment and therefore dangerous. But especially Mastodon newbies don't expect the former, and next to nobody on Mastodon expects the latter.

I want to warn Mastodon users.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Mastodon

2025-01-03 19:54:24

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Jupiter Rowland Most people see something new and they learn and adapt. They may be shocked at first, but they usually come around. But a small loud minority of people will attack anything different and try to assert power over you.

The people you seem to be describing, who insist that everyone outside of Mastodon adopts Mastodon's culture, are not going to be swayed by a list of features. If nothing else, they will double down and be upset that immigrants from another platform are infiltrating their culture.

Luckily most Mastodon and fediverse users are not like that. They just quietly go about their business, learning and adapting as they go along. You don't hear them getting outraged because they aren't outraged and don't want to be involved in the drama.

As Hubzilla and the public hubs we launch become more popular, and as other fediverse platforms become widespread, and as more Threads and Bluesky and WordPress users appear on the fediverse, eventually Mastodon users will realize that they are outnumbered.

The Fediverse will only become more multi-platform and more multi-protocol and more multi-cultural over time.

Some will adapt and some will not take this well.

I am not going to wave this list in people's faces nor pontificate over why Hubzilla is better. Because it is not better. It is different. It's for people who have different preferences and want different features.

The question is, where is my effort better spent? Should I try to convince people who do not want to be convinced... or should I spend my time building something great and working with people who see the vision and who want to learn more?

For me, that is an easy choice. The naysayers can "nay" all they want, but we are building something unique and interesting here. It will take time. It will take effort. But it will be worth it in the end.

2025-01-04 09:44:45

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Ema エマ "Lists" on Mastodon are basically privacy groups on Hubzilla, only that a few things are different.

2025-01-04 14:18:23

Ema エマ

ema@utasansh.in

@Jupiter Rowland Thanks.

2025-01-04 23:25:40

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Jupiter Rowland The purpose of a list on the other platforms is to view only the posts from those on the list. How do you do that in Hubzilla?

2025-01-04 23:37:07

Harald Eilertsen

harald@hub.volse.no

@Scott M. Stolz You can do that with Privacy groups. Just make sure the privacy group filter, or whatever it is called, is enabled for your network stream. Click the privacy group you want to see posts from, and you will see only posts from those people (and possibly, thinks they have repeated, but I'm not sure about that.)

I didn't think the lists in Mastodon worked the other way, though. Like Privacy groups, that you can post to only the people in the group, but I may be mistaken. @Jupiter Rowland do you know?

2025-01-04 23:43:47

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Harald Eilertsen To my best knowledge, you can't.

2025-01-04 23:50:07

Harald Eilertsen

harald@hub.volse.no

@Jupiter Rowland Thanks, you seem to know more about these things than me :)

2025-01-04 23:55:45

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Harald Eilertsen Lists and Privacy Groups would be considered different things, although Hubzilla seems to combine the two, which makes it a bit more confusing.

Lists appears to be something that you can do in Hubzilla, but is not obvious. I think we would need to make it more obvious somehow.

2025-01-05 00:10:38

Harald Eilertsen

harald@hub.volse.no

@Scott M. Stolz I'm all for reworking – and rewording – some of the concepts to make them more obvious and easier to understand. Privacy groups is one such concept that I think could do with a rename and a bit of polish.

2025-01-05 04:01:58

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Jupiter Rowland Thank you for all of your suggestions. I have incorporated them into the latest version.

https://codejournal.dev/page/scott/compare

I decided to avoid giving specific numbers (like 300 characters) since that can be modified by the server admins and I don't want to have to update the chart just because a project changed the numbers. So I just differentiated between microblogging (short posts) and macroblogging (long posts), which is something that is not going to change. Similarly, I just lumped several things you mentioned into "Rich Text" and made that line indicate whether you can post in rich text or not. And I defined rich text broadly to make the chart simpler.

Also, to be fair to other platforms, I included a mobile and desktop app section even though that is one area we are weak in.

And then added a customization and mod section, which we excel at.

2025-01-05 04:03:22

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Harald Eilertsen

I'm all for reworking – and rewording – some of the concepts to make them more obvious and easier to understand. Privacy groups is one such concept that I think could do with a rename and a bit of polish.

I changed it to "Posts Visible Only to Specific Privacy Groups" so that it is worded similarly to the others. How does that sound?

2025-01-05 08:32:07

Jupiter Rowland

jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Harald Eilertsen (streams) calls them "access lists".

2025-01-05 10:35:28

Harald Eilertsen

harald@hub.volse.no

@Scott M. Stolz I was more thinking about how we name the concept in Hubzilla itself. But to make it more understandable to people less familiar with the current Hubzilla terminology, I'd probably use "circles" or something instead. I think that's pretty established by other software already, and a concept more people understand.

2025-01-05 10:36:07

Harald Eilertsen

harald@hub.volse.no

@Jupiter Rowland Tbh, I think we should just adopt the name "circles", as that's pretty established via other software already.