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Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:30:32 +0200

hans@social.woefdram.nl

Americans and their #firearms... ?

law-abiding Americans have a right to carry a handgun outside their home for self-defense

I thought the Second Amendment was meant to give "a well organized militia" an option to overthrow a rogue government. But apparently individual Americans need to carry lethal weapons "for self-defense"...

So glad I don't live in a dog-eat-dog world where I must apparently be prepared to shoot someone or be shot. I like watching westerns, but I wouldn't want to live in one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/07/17/minnesota-gun-carry-laws-court-ruling/

show all 10 comments

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:41:09 +0200

Alexander Hay

alexanderhay@mastodon.social

@hans There are also plenty of ways to describe US gun culture, but "well organized" ain't one of them.

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 13:19:07 +0200

Prof Kemi FG

KFuentesGeorge@universeodon.com

@hans

The frustrating thing is that the "Wild West" had way more restrictions on gun possession than we do now.

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 14:54:08 +0200

Paul Chernoff

paulc@mstdn.social

@hans Your understanding is correct. “Bunker Hill" got its name because that was the bunker where the militia stored its guns. It was illegal to use a gun purchased for use with a militia for personal defense.

Definition of a militia in those times were murky. It was a time we didn't have police. George Washington, as president, was not a fan of them.

Back then, use of a gun in self-defense could land you in jail.

But the 2nd amendment’s writing is murkey and possibly intentionally so.

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 15:27:58 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Paul Chernoff Yeah, I read the original text once, it's not even grammatically correct. Not sure if that was intentional, but it does pose some legal challenges of course.

The intentions, no doubt, were good. After all, America had just freed itself from the English and the founding fathers wanted to make sure a government that would abuse its people could be overthrown.

But... those were different times, with very different firearms. In todays world you don't overthrow a government with a group of people using AR-15s. Not against stuff like tanks, helicopters and guided missiles.

So, in the original context of the 2A, you should allow people (no, "a well organized militia") to own tanks, helicopters, guided missiles and whatnot... Not for self-defense against their neigbors, but against the state.

Maybe I shouldn't say that, the NRA might get ideas...

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 15:42:13 +0200

Nemethon

nemethon@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

The biggest problem in the USA is lack of education combined with enormous stupidity. That's why they don't understand why this is all a stupid idea, even though Europe is showing that there are better ways.

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 15:54:46 +0200

Paul Chernoff

paulc@mstdn.social

@hans Think of much of the US Constitution as a reaction to the abuses of the British. I believe there were over 100 proposed additions to the Bill Of Rights, many which came from Colony/State constitutions. Note that there is no national right for hunting, which is in the Virginia Constitution.

The US 2nd amendment is similar to one in Virginia. Jefferson proposed a simple right to arms for self protection in Virginia. It was shot down.

And there is the slavery angle.

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 18:17:37 +0200

Dennis Wilson (Pureblood) @diaspora.psyco.fr

dennisleewilson@diaspora.psyco.fr

Ah. You have constructed a straw dummy by re-writing the text of the Second Amendment to suit YOUR view and then proceeding down the path of your own prejudices.

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 18:24:17 +0200

Dennis Wilson (Pureblood) @diaspora.psyco.fr

dennisleewilson@diaspora.psyco.fr

Ah. You have constructed a straw dummy by re-writing the text of the Second Amendment to suit YOUR view and then proceeding down the path of your own prejudices, while ignoring anything that might actually help you understand why Americans proudly and defiantly keep their guns.

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 18:25:43 +0200

Dennis Wilson (Pureblood) @diaspora.psyco.fr

dennisleewilson@diaspora.psyco.fr

Ah. You have constructed a straw dummy by re-writing the text of the Second Amendment to suit YOUR view and then proceeding down the path of your own prejudices, while ignoring anything that might actually help you understand why Americans proudly and defiantly keep their guns.

Wed, 17 Jul 2024 18:50:01 +0200

Hans van Zijst

hans@social.woefdram.nl

@Nemethon I think it's mostly the unchecked and unhinged capitalism: everything is about the money.

If you have money, you can get anything. If not, you can die. So glad Europe is much more socialist than that.