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Short Downtime 2025-05-25. Note: It's possible that all sessions will be lost, so you might have to relogin. Kurze Downtime am Sonntag, 2025-05-25. Es besteht die Möglichkeit dass es notwendig ist sich neu einzuloggen
2023-05-03 00:22:55
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Chris Trottier
via
Fediverse News
atomicpoet@mastodon.social
Despite only being validated in February, I think Group federation has been a smashing success for the Fediverse.
I use Fediverse groups every day.
And if you’re interacting with this post, so are you.
Fediverse groups even make Mastodon that much more extensible despite Mastodon itself not officially supporting groups yet.
https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/feps/fep-1b12.md
@fediversenews
FEP-1b12: Group federation Summary Internet forums are one of the oldest forms of social media. This document describes how they are implemented in existing Activitypub platforms using Group actors. It also introduces a new property to indicate that a given object belongs to a group.
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53 comments
2023-05-03 00:26:52
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Toni :mastodon:
coloco@mastodon.social
@atomicpoet
Federacion de Grupos?
Podrías explicarlo mejor?, gracias.
cc/
@p4g
Mnnn, acabo de ver que >>>>>
@fediversenews
es un grupo tambien, pero repito, ¿como funcionan y para que sirven?
cc/
@xikufrancesc
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2023-05-03 00:34:18
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Ed Ross
edross@mas.to
@atomicpoet
I was surprised to learn how easy it is to make a new group with
https://a.gup.pe/
- just search for the group you want and it is is auto-created for you if not already made.
@fediversenews
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2023-05-07 02:21:04
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HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
HistoPol@mastodon.social
@coloco
@atomicpoet
I second this, how can I use, Facebook like (?) Groups...
a) on
#Mastodon
or
b) on other
#Fedi
platforms.
@p4g
@fediversenews
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2023-05-07 02:35:10
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Chris Trottier
atomicpoet@mastodon.social
@HistoPol
@coloco
You’re posting to a group right now by posting to
@fediversenews
. It looks more like a group on Friendica than Mastodon, however.
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2023-05-07 02:52:50
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HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
HistoPol@mastodon.social
@atomicpoet
So, this is probably like setting up a joint mail address on an e-mail server that forwards mails (posts) to the specified people of the group, correct?
What I would need, however, is to thickly "categorize" contacts into group, so as to be more targeted.
E.g. not all people who enjoy
#UKpol
are interested in
#History
, etc.
@coloco
@fediversenews
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2023-05-07 03:29:09
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eshep
eshep@social.trom.tf
By FB-like, do you mean some sort of membership/access control? Not sure if there's an explicit feature that supports this, if someone knows, I'd love to hear about it.
My guess is this could be sorta doable by creating a forum account and adjusting the security for it so that posts are not visible to the public. Then all you should need to do is curate the contacts. Friendica has a
public list of all its forums
which can used from anywhere across the fediverse.
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2023-05-07 04:29:38
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Chris Trottier
atomicpoet@mastodon.social
@HistoPol
@coloco
Well, the other difference is that
@fediversenews
is moderated. I can remove posts from a group, and also ban malicious actors from participating to the group.
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2023-05-07 10:03:26
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Jupiter Rowland
jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
@
HistoPol
It's so easy that you probably don't even notice you're doing it already now.
You follow the group exactly like you follow a Mastodon user.
At least in the cases of Guppe, Lemmy, /kbin and Friendica groups/forums, you post to them by mentioning them like you'd mention a Mastodon user. Interaction with groups/forums on Hubzilla and (streams) is somewhat different; I've yet to find out how well it works.
@
Chris Trottier
Yes, @
Fediverse News
runs on the #
Friendica
node venera.social.
@
t̳̿͟͞o̳̿͟͞n̳̿͟͞i :mastodon:
1
OSINTUnleashed
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2023-05-07 10:43:45
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Mike Macgirvin
mike@macgirvin.com
In the case of streams, you can use bang-tags or @-mentions for public groups, or if your system supports local or remote wall posts you can just do that instead. For private groups the initial post sort of needs to be a DM for hopefully obvious reasons. In any case if you just select the group as the audience from the permission dropdown, we'll figure it out and just do it.
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2023-05-07 14:48:08
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
@fediversenews
It depends. On Friendica (and probably Hubzilla) groups look and behave just like Facebook groups. There’s a separate “Forums” section where groups live. Each one has posts that then have a dangling thread of replies. Replies go to on the end of the thread (and to anyone mentioned in the reply). When you look at them from Mastodon, they look like this fediversenews group and…
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2023-05-07 14:50:43
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
@fediversenews
behave just like a bot that reflects every post that mentions it. Follow the bot and you receive all the group posts. As Mastodon is supposed to get built in group support soon, I hope this can be split out and presented better than the current jumble.
In fact there’s another type of group that it is just a bot - the p4g group mentioned in this thread.
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2023-05-07 14:54:25
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
@fediversenews
a.gup.pe just creates a new bot every time someone mentions it for the first time. You can then follow the bot and it will boost any mentions of itself just like a Friendica group. However I don’t think it supports moderation and the UX is pants. All I know about p4g is that it’s “a group about p4g”. Finding groups is a hit or miss affair - you have to guess the name.
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2023-05-07 14:56:38
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
@fediversenews
The current group UX on Mastodon is also a bit odd. For example, even if I remove the fediversenews “user” and don’t mention it in a reply, the reply will still be part of the group, boosted to all followers etc as normal. Not what a Mastodon user would expect.
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2023-05-07 15:06:46
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narF ?
narF@mstdn.fr
@HistoPol
I think Mastodon's List are what you are looking for?
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2023-05-07 15:23:08
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@FinchHaven
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
Yup. Your post was boosted by fediversenews.
Interestingly it hasn’t been boosted (yet?) by p4g, but all of my earlier replies certainly were.
The boost was by the Fediverse News group. Description of the group from profile.
Test post by FinchHaven showing one boost.
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2023-05-07 15:29:03
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eshep
eshep@social.trom.tf
@
Kevin Davidson
, @
FinchHaven
, this happens because the post to which you're replying is part of a conversation in the Fediverse News Forum. Even though your post/reply is marked as "unlisted", the conversation as a whole is not, the Fediverse News user will reshare it as that is one of its functions as a forum.
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2023-05-07 15:32:41
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@FinchHaven
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
I’m using
@IceCubesApp
The Mastodon web interface is usually very out of date when displaying replies/boosts/likes and often just doesn’t show the information (even number of boosts or likes). Other clients can display this and make sure it’s more up to date.
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2023-05-07 15:39:00
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webhat
webhat@infosec.exchange
@MetalSamurai
@FinchHaven
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
this post was
Screenshot of previous post showing it was boosted by @fediversenews
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2023-05-07 15:40:38
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HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
HistoPol@mastodon.social
@narF
Maybe.
Any link so I can investigate?
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2023-05-07 15:58:26
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@FinchHaven
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
@IceCubesApp
My instance is on 4.1.2 and usually kept pretty up to date (they were running early builds of v4 in order to get post editing and hashtag following before most other people had that).
I personally don’t like the Mastodon web UI. elk or phanpy are probably better if you want a desktop web UI. I mostly use mobile.
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2023-05-07 15:59:32
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narF ?
narF@mstdn.fr
@HistoPol
You can start here:
https://mastodon.social/lists
And find more info online:
https://www.ecosia.org/search?q=mastodon%20how%20to%20use%20lists
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2023-05-07 16:01:56
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@FinchHaven
@HistoPol
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@p4g
@IceCubesApp
Could be just the updates are still in the queue and will turn up eventually.
Incidentally, this is what the thread looks like on Friendica (actually on the instance hosting this group). You can see it’s boosted (reshared) the posts and that we’re both using Mastodon.
Two replies in this thread - one from FinchHaven and my reply to it.
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2023-05-07 16:26:40
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eshep
eshep@social.trom.tf
It also gives you a delivery count of the distribution of each message you post.
11801849436457b5841eb30879835585-0.png
93098470546457b57db5e08728233455-0.png
10467231646457b49d9d877049592061-0.png
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2023-05-07 16:26:49
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Kristoff Bonne 🇪🇺 🇧🇪
kristoff@m.krbonne.net
@jupiter_rowland
@fediversenews
Hi all, in light of what happened earlier this week, we do have to keep in mind that groups (like guppe groups) are the perfect tool for a spammer to increase his/her reach with very little effort.
Perhaps, before implementing groups, we should first look at automated spam-detection / removal systems. If this isn't done, we risk that the groups will be become vehicles for spammers, which will probably completely kill of the service.
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2023-05-07 17:49:25
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@mathias
@coloco
@atomicpoet
@FinchHaven
@HistoPol
My reading of the document at the head of this thread is that this is how groups are all supposed to work. Each thread in the group has an initial post (the example is a “Page” type), and then all the replies are Note types that are attached to it, or to previous replies.
https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/feps/fep-1b12.md
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2023-05-07 19:24:31
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Jupiter Rowland
jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
@
Kevin Davidson
This has nothing to do with Mastodon and everything with Friendica.
On Friendica (and Hubzilla and (streams)), if you comment on a post (remember the start-post-and-comments structure), you don't have to mention the author of the post. They and everyone else who has the post itself in their timeline/stream will see your comment and everyone else's comments even without a single mention. You only need mentions if you comment on another comment, and even these may actually only be cosmetical.
The reason why I keep adding mentions to my comments manually (with a little help from auto-complete) is to make sure that all users on ActivityPub projects involved in the thread receive them.
@
HistoPol
@
t̳̿͟͞o̳̿͟͞n̳̿͟͞i :mastodon:
@
Chris Trottier
1
ꙮ o escasso que brilha
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2023-05-07 19:28:54
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Jupiter Rowland
jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
@
Kristoff Bonne ?? ??
We don't have to implement them.
#
Mastodon
feels like it has to implement them. The #
Fediverse
doesn't have to implement them because they are already implemented.
@
Fediverse News
is on #
Friendica
which is
not
a modified Mastodon instance, but
a project of its very own
. When Mastodon was launched in 2016, Friendica had already been around for 6 years with a full-blown group/forum functionality.
Groups/forums in the Fediverse are actually older than the Fediverse itself.
1
Yohan Yukiya Sese Cuneta 사요한🦣
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2023-05-07 19:36:39
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@jupiter_rowland
I know, I use Friendica as well. Just pointing out that it looks strange to Mastodon users.
I see Groups is listed on the Mastodon roadmap as MAS-15 and “in progress”. Maybe the new native groups support will help and it will be displayed in a way that makes it clearer.
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2023-05-07 19:39:09
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Yohan Yukiya Sese Cuneta 사요한🦣
youronlyone@c.im
@kristoff
It will depend on the platform. For example,
#Friendica
(and to an extent
#Hubzilla
and
#Streams
), the owner of the group (and anyone else given moderation access) can block accounts. There is also chirp.social which can also block accounts.
Then there is
#GNUsocial
, which is a rebranded
#StatusNet
itself a rebranded
#Laconica
(the first
#Fediverse
software, c. 2008) have built-in groups feature; which IIRC, can also block users if needed.
Personally, services like Guppe really need to add moderation features, otherwise, what you just described will more likely happen.
@jupiter_rowland
@fediversenews
1
eshep
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2023-05-07 20:33:55
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HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
HistoPol@mastodon.social
@coloco
Esta al principio de todo en la foto con hyperlink, pero en inglés.
@atomicpoet
@p4g
@fediversenews
@xikufrancesc
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2023-05-07 20:38:19
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HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
HistoPol@mastodon.social
@atomicpoet
Moderation...someI have been arguing for due to the arrival of the
#Metas
and
#Birdsite
users with very different cultures.
But is it something that I can do proactively with my threads?
Probably not, I guess, for as much as I try working in tandem with myself, I am not a group, correct?
@coloco
@fediversenews
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2023-05-08 01:25:49
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HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴
HistoPol@mastodon.social
@narF
Thanks.
I will look into this.
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2023-05-08 14:25:50
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@kristoff
@youronlyone
@jupiter_rowland
@fediversenews
Because trying to automate identifying and stopping “bad stuff” at scale is impossible. Millions of dollars spent by the social media companies on automated systems and underpaid sweat shop workers with PTSD in developing countries has failed over and over again. False positives, false negatives. Trolls, Nazis and scammers still there.
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2023-05-08 14:28:01
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@kristoff
@youronlyone
@jupiter_rowland
@fediversenews
People with eating disorders, at suicide risk and marginalised communities still under attack.
People complain about Mastodon’s moderation model, largely because it’s people and people disagree and make mistakes all the time. But it mostly works. Small communities can keep control of the behaviour of their own members. And if they don’t, they get ostracised.
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2023-05-08 16:11:52
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@FinchHaven
@jupiter_rowland
@fediversenews
@FinchHaven
But more than half of those Mastodon users appeared in the last 6 months and was pretty small for a long time before that. Friendica may be lesser known and quieter, but it’s the place to be if you prefer a Facebook style interface, or need to keep in touch with people on diaspora* (an even more insular community).
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2023-05-08 17:12:57
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Jupiter Rowland
jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
@
Kevin Davidson
@
FinchHaven
Also, Mastodon isn't so big because 10 million people willingly chose Mastodon instead of any of the other Fediverse projects.
Mastodon is so big because 10 million Twitter users were RAILROADED HARD from Twitter to one specific Mastodon instance. They were never offered a choice. They weren't even told that there's more to the Fediverse than Mastodon. And many many Mastodon users, especially on the big, general-purpose instances, still don't know that. I still keep coming across people who have joined in November, and who are completely surprised to learn that the Fediverse is not only Mastodon half a year later.
Mastodon isn't bigger because it's better. Mastodon is bigger because 99.99% of all newcomers to the Fediverse over the last 15 months believed there's nothing else. Again, many still believe that.
4
♾️ Yuki (스노 雪亮) ? ??️
Trenton Matthews
UnCoveredMyths
Auntie Denier
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2023-05-08 17:23:53
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lakelady
lakelady@mstdn.social
@jupiter_rowland
sounds like too many didn't pay attention to what they were doing because they're used to being spoon-fed their internet. Time to get out of the high-chair and feed themselves.
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2023-05-08 17:25:09
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Trenton Matthews
queenslight@pone.social
@jupiter_rowland
@fediversenews
Another reason why there needs to be ‘modern’ tutorials and the like about the
#fediverse
in general,
#PeerTube
being among them!
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2023-05-08 17:33:23
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Jupiter Rowland
jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
@
Trenton Matthews
I guess then we'll need three versions of some tutorials, depending on where people are standing:
for people who don't know Twitter/don't know social media beyond Facebook
for Twitter users
for Mastodon users who still cannot imagine there being anything else in the Fediverse than Mastodon
2
Trenton Matthews
Auntie Denier
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2023-05-08 17:44:39
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@jupiter_rowland
I accept that I may not be typical, but before I came across from Twitter last November, I thought I’d end up on diaspora* or Friendica, as those were the two I’d heard of. I just didn’t know anybody there. I hadn’t heard about Mastodon, but that’s where everyone started going, and I wasn’t too worried about where I went first as I was already aware that (in principal) I could move with my followers somewhere else.
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2023-05-08 17:47:33
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@jupiter_rowland
In fact mastodon.social (like a lot of instances) was closed to new users, so I spent some time looking around for others. I didn’t fit neatly into many of the specialised instances, so picked a general one. I didn’t realise until after I’d joined mas.to that I already knew the admin from elsewhere.
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2023-05-08 17:49:30
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@jupiter_rowland
But it was having an initial handful of familiar faces that brought me across, and the availability of a wider selection of mobile apps that meant I was reasonably happy with Mastodon as my choice.
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2023-05-08 17:50:57
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Trenton Matthews
queenslight@pone.social
@jupiter_rowland
Yep, all of them styles of tutorial will definitely be necessary.
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2023-05-08 17:52:17
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Benjamin
BenjaminNelan@mastodon.social
@MetalSamurai
@jupiter_rowland
Yeah I was about to say, no one was being railroaded into mastodon.social during November, they were closed to new users unless you had someone who could send you an invite.
So it became a bit of a bluesky situation where people were asking for invites to .social or .art because they didn't understand servers and wanted to be where everyone else was.
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2023-05-08 17:52:32
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Trenton Matthews
queenslight@pone.social
@jupiter_rowland
Speaking of tutorials on the
#Fediverse
topic, here’s one that definitely needs more views!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAvdEHESRSY
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2023-05-08 18:06:46
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Trenton Matthews
queenslight@pone.social
@BenjaminNelan
@MetalSamurai
@jupiter_rowland
Me wonders what will happen if Mastodon Social ‘does’ have to close for new users at any point, especially after all upgrades they’re bringing to it and by extension all other instances.
That’s gonna look highly um, dumb lets say?
Premoting an instance in an app that’s currently closed?
I miss the older ‘pick a server’ by default concept!
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2023-05-08 18:20:29
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Benjamin
BenjaminNelan@mastodon.social
@MetalSamurai
@jupiter_rowland
Yeah I was about to say, no one was being railroaded into mastodon.social during November, they were closed to new users unless you had someone who could send you an invite.
So it became a bit of a bluesky situation where people were asking for invites to .social or .art because they didn't understand servers and wanted to be where everyone else was.
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2023-05-08 18:24:30
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@BenjaminNelan
@jupiter_rowland
It seems obvious to me now that of course mastodon.social is the one run by Mastodon GmbH, but at the time (last November) it didn’t seem any more special to me. Just one of the many that joinmastodon suggested.
I’m not comfortable with the current decision to make that the default for anyone using the app to sign up (and also the
https://spreadmastodon.org
site).
https://joinmastodon.org/
still offers you a choice.
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2023-05-08 18:37:50
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Benjamin
BenjaminNelan@mastodon.social
@MetalSamurai
@jupiter_rowland
Definitely agree, I don't think making an instance the default especially as one as large as mastodon.social is a good idea - but I can also sympathise with the reasoning behind doing so.
As I brought up here - they should try to strike a balance between friendly to new users while also spreading users out so they're not all in one place.
https://mastodon.social/@BenjaminNelan/110314625854269281
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2023-05-08 18:40:56
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Benjamin
BenjaminNelan@mastodon.social
@MetalSamurai
@jupiter_rowland
Also think November really cemented the need for more 'general' instances. A huge roadblock for many people who were trying to join was this concern over 'siloing' themselves into a single interest.
Arguably too much attention put into instances having some kind of targeted focus. Sort of muddies the waters - the local feed should never really be the most important thing in a federated system.
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2023-05-08 18:49:27
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@BenjaminNelan
@jupiter_rowland
I’m not sure about that. For people that have a definite community, knowing that there are instances specifically for you is going to be very important.
I just cross over too many, and hardly any that actually have specialised instances.
My local timeline is absolutely worthless. I gave up on it very soon after joining. I’m a bit jealous of ones that are actually interesting and on topic. At least I can view them with Icecubes
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2023-05-08 18:56:47
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Benjamin
BenjaminNelan@mastodon.social
@MetalSamurai
@jupiter_rowland
From a moderation perspective it makes sense but from an interests perspective I feel like Mastodon would be better served by having those interests organised in some kind of cross-instance group/page functionality, similar to groups on Calckey.
It would mean that if you don't manage to get into the 'premier' instance for your interest you can still benefit from the 'local timeline' of sorts.
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2023-05-08 19:08:36
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Kevin Davidson
MetalSamurai@mas.to
@BenjaminNelan
@jupiter_rowland
Groups are coming to Mastodon. I have no idea what they will look like, but yes, that should be better than the local timeline or the mess of hashtags which don’t federate the way people expect.
Of course CalcKey and hometown (a Mastodon fork) both have local-only posting for more of a community feel.
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