How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse)

2023-12-15 15:04:46

chris@im.allmendenetz.de

Meta and the Fediverse: How to Kill a Decentralised Network (such as the Fediverse)

https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html

show all 15 comments

2023-12-15 15:07:20

Alexander Goeres

jabgoe2089@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

but xmpp wasn't killed off. it still exists.

2023-12-15 16:03:04

Hans Wolters

hans@streams.gotdns.ch

It does, but only as a fraction of what it could have been

2023-12-15 16:06:47

Alexander Goeres

jabgoe2089@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

well, all those people who joined google talk, didn't do this because of the technical background xmpp. so theoretically they never were active xmpp users. and so when google split off xmpp was in the same state as it was before google. i don't see that there was any damage as such ...

2023-12-15 16:07:06

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

I think the days of the fediverse being its own exclusive little community are coming to an end, like it or not. The very fact that WordPress is including ActivityPub means that there eventually may be more WordPress sites on the fediverse than Mastodon users. More people are already on their way, with or without Threads.

Meta is still a threat, especially if they gain a significant user base and can start dictating terms. So we do have to remain vigilant and make sure our systems are not dependent on theirs in any way.

2023-12-15 16:11:45

Hans Wolters

hans@streams.gotdns.ch

partly true yes, but there have also been a lot of users who started to be able to talk to people on msn/gtalk/etc... Let's not make the same mistakes again.

Seen the first posts already

2023-12-15 16:19:42

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

In some ways, it is just going back to what it used to be. Fediverse and XMPP were relatively small. Big guys join. Now its bigger. They leave. Now it is smaller again. So I don't see them joining as the threat. We'll still be here.

The real threat is whether they gain control over the protocols or not. If they control the protocols, they can make it hard or impossible for smaller players to compete. If they do not control the protocols, then when they leave, the rest of the fediverse remains. So that is what we have to be wary of.

2023-12-15 16:23:23

Hans Wolters

hans@streams.gotdns.ch

So I don't see them joining as the threat. We'll still be here.

That is not why I do not want them in, or kept out. It is personal for me and I think it will wind up as just another flood of ads.... I will therefor block them.

2023-12-15 16:25:14

Alexander Goeres

jabgoe2089@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

i will block ads as they show up. but i don't know how these ads should be coming into my feed as long as i don't subscribe to them?

2023-12-15 18:22:24

Hans Wolters

hans@streams.gotdns.ch

@Alexander Goeres What if some connection from the past connects to you and start promoting his brother's business? Or someone is posting 50 cat pictures from some cdn?

2023-12-15 18:25:37

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Hans Wolters You have two options. They follow you and they can only see your public posts, and you won't receive any notifications about their posts. Or follow them back (connect) and then unfollow them because they are spamming you. You have that issue now, even without Threads being involved.

2023-12-15 18:28:42

Hans Wolters

hans@streams.gotdns.ch

@Scott M. Stolz true I guess. I already filter them b.t.w., the complete domain

2023-12-15 18:31:55

Alexander Goeres

jabgoe2089@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

@Hans Wolters if i get the impression that it is valid i will tolerate it -- for a certain value of "valid". e.g. authors or musicians or artists trying to promote their works. accounts with only commercial ads will be blocked. i will also block this cat picture example and i already did so. posters that clutter my timeline without any additional value for me are not welcome. but i see this on the level of a direct connection. blocking full fedi-hosts is just too much.

2023-12-15 18:41:34

Hans Wolters

hans@streams.gotdns.ch

@Alexander Goeres

Some 6 years ago I was so tired of friends that promote shit that I simply stopped using facebook. My so called 'Friends' started to ask my wife how I am until she simply stated online that they can ask me per e-mail or other ways. They simply stopped asking. And yes, some of them I know for about 40 years already.

Anyway, it is good to have filters that fit your needs. Even when blocking complete servers

2023-12-15 21:24:14

Bill Statler

billstatler@forum.statler.ws

I want more cat pictures. :-)

Hans, thanks for that link. I think it's a realistic forecast, even if it's not 100% certain.

There is a concept that I call "freedom surfing". At any time, there are situations where you can find freedom. But they are like waves near the shore, and they don't last. So we need to be aware of that, and be ready to go surf on a different wave.

As of 2023, the Fediverse is a pretty good freedom wave, and especially the Zot6/Nomad parts. Maybe by 2025 the ActivityPub Fediverse will not be so good. We can't stop this from happening, but we have Zot6/Nomad for backup, and we can watch for the next freedom wave (which maybe hasn't even been invented yet).

2023-12-16 13:41:56

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

That is one major benefit of having our own protocol that is designed from the ground up to give users control. We can control what we see, either by who we follow or by blocking. And it is an alternative to ActivityPub.