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Fri, 12 May 2023 15:33:21 +0200
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Kristian
z428@zotum.net
(Now I added a new clone to my Hubzilla account just for the sake of it - to see the system apparently send out connection requests to my connections. This ... is unexpected.🙈)
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20 comments
Fri, 12 May 2023 15:44:39 +0200
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Mario Vavti
mario@hub.somaton.com
I am quite sure that hubzilla does not automatically send connection requests after cloning a channel...
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Fri, 12 May 2023 15:44:56 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
Are you sure it actually got sent? I didn't get any request at least.
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Fri, 12 May 2023 15:45:15 +0200
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Kristian
z428@zotum.net
@
Mario Vavti
(Used streams.hubzilla.social which is Streams and behaves in a different way here...?)
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Fri, 12 May 2023 15:45:52 +0200
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Kristian
z428@zotum.net
@
Maria Karlsen
At least to my own accounts on Friendica. (Feeling like a self-stalker following myself around here in many shady places...)
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Fri, 12 May 2023 15:46:49 +0200
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Mario Vavti
mario@hub.somaton.com
@
Kristian
streams is not hubzilla
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Fri, 12 May 2023 15:49:36 +0200
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Kristian
z428@zotum.net
@
Mario Vavti
Yes... Sorry. I'm still learning to make myself "home" outside of Friendica and all.😬
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Fri, 12 May 2023 19:41:58 +0200
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Kristian
z428@zotum.net
@
lotfi
Interesting. I thought the whole point was to have ActivityPub interact with a channel not a particular account so to have a nomadic identity by decoupling an account (tied to a server) from a cloneable channel. That's not how it works, then?
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Fri, 12 May 2023 20:03:00 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
My channel is connected to some Mastodon accounts at its main location. If I log in to a clone and look at my contacts, the Mastodon ones have faded avatars and are labelled "not connected at this location". This means all communications will go through my main hub. If I start adding them from my clone things will start to get messy, since the different clones are one and the same channel.
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Fri, 12 May 2023 22:49:41 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
@
Kristian
An example to clarify:
robinhood@zotum.net, and its clones robinhood@tiksi.net and robinhood@hubzilla.org are one and the same channel, not three different channels.
At the same time, your account can have multiple channels, for example robinhood@zotum.net, itguy@zotum.net, superman@zotum.net and so on. All of those can also have clones if you wish
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Sat, 13 May 2023 09:17:32 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
Resiliance. When, for example, zotum.net is down I just login at tiksi.net instead - and continue as if I haven't relogged at all. I still have all my uploaded files and photos, all my posts, all my contacts. (Except for those that are on networks that don't support nomadic identity.)
It's like your live action backup. It's totally seemless.
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Sat, 13 May 2023 09:20:59 +0200
zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 13 May 2023 09:21:21 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
I once made a short video about it. I don't have that anymore, but you can get the original presentation from my profile page if you want.
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Sat, 13 May 2023 10:01:43 +0200
zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 13 May 2023 10:02:36 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
@
_jayrope
I have no idea about the hardware, you would have to ask @
Max Kostikov
about that. But they are not at the same physical location if that's what you mean.
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Sat, 13 May 2023 10:08:59 +0200
zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 13 May 2023 10:09:52 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
Hm. I am thinking of another way of explaining clones. Let me put it like this: Your channel identity is like your real life identity. And your main location is like your home. You have your friends and your memories there. And if you go to another place, you will still be the same person, with still the same friends and memories. It's just the location that changes - not anything else.
So, to conclude: in this context your channel is you as a person, your main hub is your home. And your clones are different places like your Mom's house or your vacation home. But you will still be you.
(And I suppose you can follow up by saying in this context your Mastodon contacts have a faulty GPS ;-) )
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Sat, 13 May 2023 10:12:29 +0200
zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 13 May 2023 10:17:23 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
@
_jayrope
Right, if your clones are on the same physical hardware, you will be vulnerable to hardware failure. So I would suggest having at least one clone at another physical location. That would indeed help. Like when zotum had a failure - nothing was lost - I just logged in at a clone instead. And from that clone I could still communicate with zotum contacts - that were logged in at their clones :-)
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Sat, 13 May 2023 10:22:39 +0200
zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 13 May 2023 10:29:02 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
@
_jayrope
I am not sure I understand why you would need to hide your clones. They should never get any connection requests in the first place, since all communication will go through your main location.
Your channel at the main location and at clones are one and the same. Your address will always be that of your main location.
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Sat, 13 May 2023 10:47:59 +0200
zuletzt bearbeitet: Sat, 13 May 2023 10:48:54 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
@
_jayrope
Ok. first. If I am logged in at zotum.net (my main location) all my posts will be sent from shimriez@zotum.net.
If I log in at tiksi.net (a clone) all my posts will still be sent from shimriez@zotum.net since it's my home adress and my main location.
All my connections are made using my main location - shimriez@zotum.net. If I start adding the same contact to clones (that are really not different identities but the same ones) unexpected things might happen.
As for Hubzilla and Streams contacts - you will not notice any difference - the software knows it's still you wherever you are. As for contacts on other software - if your main location is down, you will most likely appear offline to them (I haven't tested). But as soon as it gets online again, your posts should be delivered through it again - possibly with a delay.
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Sat, 13 May 2023 11:02:59 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
@
_jayrope
You are welcome! And the best way of giving back is to pass it on. Next time someone asks, you will have the answer :-)
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Mon, 15 May 2023 07:50:12 +0200
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Kristian
z428@zotum.net
@
Maria Karlsen
Thanks very much for the explanation. At some point I got lost here though. For one, I think I got the difference between users and channels. What somehow surprises me or feels a bit weird is that idea of a "main location" or these interactions generally being tied to a location. I kind of expected that, while interacting with ActivityPub or Mastodon, these communication (for a Mastodon user) would be a communication with the
channel
rather than a particular
location
of a clone of that channel. I wasn't aware that the actual
location
of a particular user is exposed to ActivityPub / external systems here. Is there a reason for this design choice? 😶
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Mon, 15 May 2023 08:31:31 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
@
Kristian
I am not involved in the design but I can tell you this much: Hubzilla is older than Mastodon, so a lot of choices were made before the elefant entered the room.
If we leave ActivityPub out of the picture for a little while, this is how it works:
You create a channel. This channel represents you. Like mine: I am "shimriez" and what it says after the @ doesn't really matter, it's just my current address/location. I have switched "main location" or "home server" several times during the years. Each time I change my main location, my address also changes, but not my identity. It's like moving in real life.
Now, for communicating, let's think of your identity as a phone number. Hubzilla and Streams know your mobile number. They don't care if you are at work or on vacation, they just call your mobile number.
Mastodon on the other hand, keeps calling your landline...
If you want your Mastodon contacts to be connected to your clones, that is indeed possible. But, for them each clone will seem like a seperate contact. And when you post, they will probably get as many copies of each post as you have clones. I don't think that is desireable.
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1
Kristian
Mon, 15 May 2023 09:53:52 +0200
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Maria Karlsen
shimriez@zotum.net
@
Mario Vavti
Please shout if I am giving the wrong advice here.
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